QUESTION:
Whenever someone makes a semi-sad comment here they are referred to
counselling services however I would tell people who go there to be
wary.
They can start a process to FORCIBLY hospitalize you.
Don't reveal everything, when you go to these services with serious
problems you are considered to be on the outskirts of society and the
governments treats you like such. They will protect society and not you
as an individual (perhaps rightly but that's beside the point).
A word of warning.
Can you provide some insight as to what you are referring to in your case? There are some cases where hospitalization would be deemed necessary, such as if you were considered a danger to yourself or others, but more clarification would be helpful.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate you letting us all know, but at the same time, we don't want to deter anybody from visiting counselling services if they feel they need it.
they can hospitalize you if you are a danger to yourself? Assuming you are an adult, isn't suicide legal?
Deletewtf that means I can't even do what I want with my body (if I wanted it) without the government stepping in!?
1a: oh noes, the big bad man is trying to keep you alive. Really? Someone wants to help suicidal people recover and this is your reaction? Individual rights?!
DeleteNo.. suicide is definitely not legal.
DeleteThat's right, Assisted suicide is illegal in Canada.
Delete^non-assisted isn't
DeleteYes they can hospitalize you if they think you are suicidal. While it *appears* to be very anti-libertarian as you say, much more often than not, its much safer. You have to remember that many people consider suicide because they are in situations they can't handle, or are not thinking clearly.
ReplyDeleteA counsellors job is to help a person cope with the issues in their life. They hospitalize you if they think you're suicidal because you're unstable, and are not thinking clearly. Its to protect you.
1/2 here. 2 was meant to be a response to 1.a.
DeleteI don''t like it, I don't like it one bit. I can understand them taking action if you clearly have an intent to hurt others but your body is yours (hell even saying that is a misnomer, you don't have a body you are a body).
DeleteI don't think it's about protecting you, it's about protecting the investment society has made in you; years of schooling, free medical, etc. They want their money
If you really want to commit suicide, then go right ahead. But you'd be dead wrong if you thought that everyone that ever wanted to commit suicide came to that decision in a totally calm, relaxed and logical manner.
DeleteThe counsellor protects you from yourself, because when you want to kill yourself, you're not REALLY yourself. You're a husk of uncoped-with feelings and sadness.
Plus, some people make themselves dangerous to others when they commit suicide (i.e. jumping off of overpasses).
DeleteReply 2b and anyone else thinking it is "taking a right away from your body".
DeleteA lot of people in counselling want help. They go there to find help. Very rarely, especially in a university setting, are students required to go to counselling in order to, let say, graduate. Thus, majority of those students voluntarily go there knowing they need help.
If someone really wanted to commit suicide and was 110% committed to the act, they would have done it. They don't need to wait to go to counselling, telling the counsellor about their elaborate and detailed plan (and it is detailed, counsellors make sure it is an actual plan), if they believe in their right to their own body. Majority of the time, you talk about this in counselling since you are seeking HELP. It is a cry for help.
Thus, as harsh as it is and I personally hate the way we treat mental illness within a hospital, committing someone with suicidal intent to a hospital is helping. The best they know how and have been trained to. How we deal with patients admitted into the hospital is a total different story which isn't the issue here. But yeah, not violating a right as you ask for the help.
OP is full of bullshit. I've had an experience where someone had a huge breakout and they were not forcibly taken to the hospital (they ended up getting an emergency appointment at the school's clinic). Furthermore, even if one goes to the hospital for a mental breakdown and are worried about hurting themselves and others, they talk with a psychiatrist. If they psychiatrist thinks there's an issue they either (a) keep them in the hospital and treat with medication, then after the episode has past, decide if the patient needs further care, or (b) get in touch with family and discuss the options with them. The family has final say in what happens. Source: experiences that happened to a close friend.
ReplyDeleteTL;DR if you worried about harming yourself or others, get to the hospital, and be completely honest with the doctors. You aren't going to get proper care and help if you with-hold things.
If you're experiencing any mental health problems book an appointment with the school's clinic. They are very experienced and incredibly helpful.
I have been forcibly hospitalized before, I guess it did stop me from thinking those thoughts after I left. But it wasn't from feeling better about myself, it was fear of going back there, even know I shudder thinking about that place...whatever I don't know why I posted I don't want to talk about this
DeleteTotally agreed. I made an appointment with the engineering counsellors after experiencing a very long bout of depression. They were extremely caring and helpful, and I'm certain all the other faculty counsellors and others (I'm assuming there are general ones) are terrific as well.
DeleteWe're all university students with many different issues we all face. Mental health awareness, and the related services the school provides, are not nearly well elaborated-upon during Frosh week during the Cornerstones event, or whatever the hell the Friday morning event is now called. Its so unbelievably important, and so many students are losing out on so much help because they don't know how to reach out or who to reach out to.
Long story short: Don't be ashamed of seeing a counsellor for any reason. They are an amazing group of people who really do care about you.
Worst advice ever. I was forcibly hospitalized. Got very little help. Pretended to be OK to be released because I missed the Internet. Nothing ever changed.
Delete3c +1
DeleteI want to be clear here, I am NOT saying not to go to counselling services. If you are in trouble then you should go there and work through your issues. I agree that mental health stigma is persistent and very harmful.
ReplyDeleteI am simply telling students to be mindful of what they say.
-OP
DeleteAgain, that information is literally useless to your own point. What is an example of something that YOU think that a student shouldn't say to a counsellor?
ReplyDelete5 here, meant to be a reply to OP (4).
Deletek here's a concrete example, just a random one I'm sure you can think of other circumstances.
DeleteYou are feeling depressed and you are talking to counselling services and they are helping you with your problems. One day you are at a hardware store and you see a rope and you think of suicide, it is just a fluttering thought and you don't take it seriously. You mention this thought to counselling services and maybe make a little joke about it. They take it very seriously, they write it down in their record and say you have to go to a psychiatrist, this person also sees it in your record and decide you have to go to the hospital. Then you are stuck there for a week, having to tell your family and friends of your situation in explicit detail and in the end you are traumatized.
Now this is a trivial example I agree, you could probably explain it away well enough but still it could happen.
Lets change the case a bit, you see the rope and you did consider something for a bit, but then you decided against (you had a conscious debate in your mind), you think counselling is enough as you can still live your life and you start to go there. Then the same scenario happens and you end up in the hospital. Heck maybe you don't, but you still have to deal with the consequences of what you said/did and it goes into your record (psych meeting).
I'm just spit-balling here, not trying to start a fight at all.
In my experience; that kind of situation didn't result in me being hospitalized at all. Obviously the counselor followed up with me about the thoughts and we talked about what it may mean and stuff.
DeleteI could be wrong, and things may differ based on specific circumstances, experiences, and which doctor or counselor you see but hospitalizations seems to tend to be a later result if concrete suicide plans are being talked about.
This is very important because while what you say to your doctor or counselor is confidential, if you get hospitalized for mental illness, for whatever fucked up reason police and border enforcement get access to this data, and people been turned away at the US border for suicide hospitalizations. It is a super traumatic experience, I would not recommend.
ReplyDeleteThat's scary, that means you might be barred from seeing your family
DeleteThis only happens if the police are involved in your hospitalization, i.e. you resist and police are called to escort you or you are hurting yourself/someone else and police are called. Still not okay that your health info is now accessibile information by police/border but just FYI - don't want to deter people from walking themselves into a hospital if they need it.
DeleteSource: have been "on form" i.e. forcibly hospitalized and have since crossed the border with no issues
^what if like they show up and you willingly go with them
DeleteThis post is not a question.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the comments tread is the OP fear-mongering because of their bad experience. I think the rope example is very extreme. They'll probably ask more about the thought, or if you experience these thoughts often or if you feel you are going to be dangerous to yourself before having you hospitalized. If you're telling them a very elaborate plan about hanging yourself, yes they're going to hospitalize you because you are a danger to yourself.
ReplyDeleteI think suicide prevention is done in the faith that most people who think of killing themselves, don't actually want to die, but feel hopeless about their situation and see suicide as a means to escape. That's why there's sometimes warning-signs before a person suicides, the person may be acting out for help. Going to counselling services and telling a counsellor you're thinking of killing yourself is seen as wanting/needing help so of course they're going to intervene. Sometimes that means hospitalizing you if they feel that it's unsafe for you to go. You can also be hospitalized if you're home and experience a complete break-down and someone calls 911. Ultimately, what you tell your counsellor is up to you, however it shouldn't come as a surprise that they're going to take suicidal thoughts seriously.
I think OP is fear-mongering a bit but there is a kernel there: be careful what you say. Which it seems was the main point if you read the post.
Delete8. I did read the posts, and I thought the message was very obvious about being careful what you tell them... if you read MY post you would see that. I was just saying if you are attending counselling and do decide to tell them something (like suicidal thoughts), it's not really a surprise that they need to take it serious.
DeleteTell someone you need a hug - no fucks given. Tell someone you're going to kill yourself, everyone panics. Maybe they should give out hugs instead.
ReplyDelete