OMG UPDATE: Question? Answer.

Updated on Sunday, April 13

#6318

QUESTION: I hate to ask this because I'm afraid the answer will make me lose faith in humanity but, what is everyone's take on modern day feminism?

34 comments

  1. Feminism as in equality between genders/sexes is fine, but I think the movement is being hijacked by radicals who have become just as oppressive as the institutions they are critiquing.

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  2. uhhhhhhh stop with this feminism labeling!

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  3. The feminist movement isnt being run properly on a large scale. No one is trying to empower the women so the playing field can be levelled. The majority of the movement is trying to look for affirmative action type handouts. And that has never got any groups anywhere. Look at the income disparity among whites and other races in the USA.

    For example, Women in CS. That's a great program that should be part of the feminist movement. Yet that is a small scale program, while "boo hoo, we are oppressed" is what's being pushed more rather solutions and actions.

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  4. At this point, in this country, women are no more oppressed than men. Hence, feminists nowadays like to invent things to complain about. I really can't take modern-day feminism seriously...

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    1. i can't take you seriously

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    2. I cant believe what I just read. From your comment, your are either a very privileged white woman, a dumbass, or a man. Oppression is very real today just as it was 30 years ago.

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    3. 4c i don't notice it really, I'm sure it's still there but to say it's 'as real today as it was 30 years ago' is way over the top.

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    4. @4d

      By real, I mean still exists just as it did 30 years ago, not as intense as it was 30 years ago

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    5. please tell me you aren't serious.....

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  5. 3 said this really well. For me, feminism has ultimately been about gender equality, and I think that the movement as a whole has gotten really good (too good) at pointing out systematic misogyny and oppression. However, I'm starting to realize (unfortunately) that few people seems to be concerned with actual *empowerment*, which absolutely pisses me off.

    At this moment, I consider myself a feminist. However, I feel like I'm at the tail-end of the period of my life where I'm going to label myself as such, not because my views and opinions have changed, but because the label (which is representative of the movement) is centering too much on discussion and too little on action and results.

    So, tl;dr: disappointed with "modern-day feminism", but I am always going to be pushing for gender equality and empowerment in politics, in CS, in everything.

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  6. Intersectional feminism is the source of the most powerful societal critique academia is producing today, I think. Today's feminism has taken charge of the unglamorous housework of championing gender issues (for all genders), and today's feminists get a huge amount of undeserved negativity flung at them. Death threats, rape threats, constant harassment... and society just kind of accepts this as normal and expected from the internet. I think that's a shame, and a disgrace to a self-proclaimed civil society.

    Loss of privilege is not discrimination, it's equalization. It's also terrifying if you're in that position of privilege: namely, white and male, and while I sympathize, it simply doesn't compare to what I have to go through just because I wasn't born a man. I suspect 3's paternalistic attitude towards handouts is not evidence-based (https://decorrespondent.nl/541/why-we-should-give-free-money-to-everyone/20798745-cb9fbb39), and that view likely results from a position of privilege, particularly when he/she continues by handwaving away the socioeconomic inequalities that have been entrenched for centuries with the an unsubstantiated position on a few years of affirmative programs. These things are not apples to apples.

    I also strongly protest against the people claiming that feminism doesn't represent itself well enough as a movement, or it's not palatable enough. Frankly, I'm not going to water down things that make my everyday life a hell just because some 20 year old white boy feels uncomfortable about it. You should feel fucking uncomfortable. How the hell do you think women feel every day? I'm sick of the constant derailing, trivializing, false equivalences. I disagree with some feminists, and I think that's fine. We still have similar goals. Some feminists are more extreme than me, and people point at them and say they're hurting the cause. I think that's ridiculous; without them, I'd be the extremist, and people would be pointing the exact same fingers at me---and I consider myself a progressive conservative. I need someone to move the Overton window. People are just looking for an excuse to vilify feminists, so they set up strawmen out of the most extreme, poorest articulated arguments and say "AHA! YOU FEMINISTS ARE SUCH A JOKE!" I find it pretty depressing that people latch on to something that unsubstantial to affirm their positions, but I also get it to some extent; it's hard to give up the status quo. Philosophical or ideological inertia.

    The people that say women's rights are a solved problem are almost certainly white, upper-class women and men. It's a good start, but let's please drop the ethnocentrism. Stop assuming whites stand for "everyone" and then use this as a reason to dismiss the plight of everyone who's not white. It's no different than claiming that men represent all of humanity while women are this weird "other." You could call it neocolonialist, I don't know. But I'm certain it's wrong.

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    1. How dare you imply colonialism is wrong!

      Are we not citizens of a loyal colony of HM Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Regina?

      Would you have us shirk the White Man's Burden?

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    2. Thanks for taking the time to write and explain this so well. Especially the part about feminists who are more extreme than you are. I hope some of the people who don't agree with you will take the time to read your post.

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  7. Given the commentary in 18018, I'm becoming more convinced the feminists are necessary... did not realize fellow humans, particularly men, actually thought that way.

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    1. +1

      Even if they were trolls, making jokes about the gangrape of a minor makes you a scumbag in my book. First time I ever sympathized with feminists. Thinking everyone should dress like a nun to prevent rape? What century is this? I'm starting to think sexual assault isn't taken seriously enough by some people.

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    2. I'm happy to see those disgusting comments had a positive effect on some people. More discussion is needed on the topic, at least to increase awareness.

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  8. Women are everywhere, and I think its a pretty fair ground for competition. I am in Math, and I have held various coop positions, where many senior ups, and coops are female.

    Now if you say there are less women in the senior up positions in professional areas, I urge you to consider that within waterloo itself, most of the math and engineering programs are male. No body is stopping females from applying or getting in to these programs is there? Also, there are more women that go to university than men, and still less women are in STEM fields. The world can provide opportunities, but thats it. So kudos and props to the girls in STEM programs, and if they are succesful in it, they will get what they want.

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    1. As a girl in a STEM program I will admit it isn't the most welcoming to a super girly girl type. You kind of have to blend in and be "one of the guys" to not feel ostracized. So that can be a real deterrent and has certainly made me think about switching out of my program.

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    2. But I think a large part of it just has to do with personal interests as well

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    3. ^Exactly what my point was! Its the female's personal choice what she wants to pursue. And you cannot deny that STEM tends to higher positions and more money. So the fact that girls choose to pass up STEM or find themselves ill-suited for it, or flunking from it is there doing, not society's

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    4. You've mentioned senior people. You clearly have worked for large companies. Big, publicly owned companies with strong HR departments are the best places for STEM women to work. I'd say there's almost certainly discrimination in the politicking, but co-ops/interns are very isolated from that kind of thing. I didn't really begin to notice it until my senior terms. I'm glad it hasn't affected you either, because I know of a number of women that spent their entire co-op battling senior employees trying to sleep with them, which is a nightmarish situation to be in. (Obviously, CECA will do nothing, so you get stuck in an abusive situation where money and failing a co-op term coerce you into staying.)

      You probably haven't tried getting a job at a company with weak HR or a small company in the tech sector. They are hellish places to work as a woman, and it doesn't matter how feminine you are. Silicon Valley is a snake pit, but it's where all the money is... and women in the Bay Area earn 49 cents on the dollar men do. There are hundreds of stories, but Julie Ann Horvath's story about working for GitHub, a company that's worshipped in tech circles, came out recently after she quit and painted a really toxic picture.

      Trust me. I love tech. I've considered leaving because it's just too abusive, not because I want to leave. Attrition rates for women in tech are twice that of men, which is a much bigger difference than the workforce at large (so you can't simply explain this as "women leaving work to raise a family"). Something very ugly is going on.

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    5. There are also external and socialization factors that systematically discourage women from pursuing certain fields (ex. parents buying the Polly Pockets rather than Lego, the "hysterical"/"bossy" woman trope, vapid magazines/tv shows that heavily market towards women, not seeing people like them represented in the fields they want to go into).

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    6. Well, if it is sexual objectification thats the issue, I don't know what to do. I have never been in that position because I am a guy.

      I just have never really seen a female co-worker being coerced into sexual behaviour.

      I do however notice that some women in the workplace tend to go out of their way to hit on the SVPs and the VPs that there work is involved with. Make of it what you will, but sexual objectification may look bad, but really nobody has the legal authority to lay a hand on you against your will. And by god if they do, you will come out a rich woman because of the lawsuit.

      I am sorry that you felt this way and are considering leaving the Tech field, but maybe that was just a bad experience. The majority of men are like me, who can appreciate a hot girl at work but not try any funny business atleast until she consents ;)

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    7. ^ I also want to add that girls that are beautiful have a huge advantage in interviews, because trust me, a guy over a cute girl in a STEM workplace where the majority is male, they will go with the hottie

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    8. 9g, you are forgetting the common misconception of pretty girls being dumb. I guarantee you, if there is an average looking guy & a pretty girl interviewing for the same job, the average looking guy will get it 75% of the times.

      If you think they are looking for a pretty young thing & not the best employee, you clearly underestimate STEM employers.

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  9. It's bs. Now get back to the kitchen

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    1. I know right, just do what you do best make me a goddamn sammich and fetch me a cold one

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  10. Gender equality can never truly exist. There will always be an imbalance.

    Sadly, I think modern day feminism has gotten to the point where it is used to justify discrimination against men. If a place of business is mandated by law that they must hire a certain percentage of men and a certain percentage of women than it is not truly gender equality. I think gender equality would dictate hiring the BEST person for the job regardless of whether that person is male or female. As a woman, if I get hired by a company I want to know it is because they are confident that I am the best person for the job, not simply because I help the company meet their quota of women in a specific role.

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  11. I'm not particularly familiar with feminism as a culture or a cause but I'd still like to give my take on gender equality. I think there are probably varying degrees of sexism throughout the world and just throughout the range of people in any place. That being said, my impression of Canada is certainly that the average person has moved well past the point of deliberately keeping women down (feel free to read a blow job innuendo there, it's a fitting metaphor). That being said, I think women definitely still have fewer opportunities but more as a result of convention and social expectations. I think it's on a subconscious level that both men and women have tendencies to view women as less rational, bad at math, and generally lacking agency. I also don't think any of those feelings are true, I just think they're ingrained from social conventions. That being said there are also separate general notions that people have about men that dictate what they can do or be. It's more difficult for a man to be a nurse or to drink a daiquiri. I think the issue is that we have to find a way to rid ourselves of below the surface prejudices towards both genders, and if we can somehow, then women will benefit more than men from it, but they deserve to, and men will also benefit in other ways.

    tldr: The fact that women have it harder in life is a symptom of a separate cause. The cause is that there are preconceived notions towards both genders that we have to work to redefine.

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